Governance Working Group


(Philippe) #41

Just have finished to read the whole topic. There are interesting ideas here, but I don’t have one defined opinion on that question.
I agree with @lapineige, we need some time to take a decision.


(Thatoo) #42

The jury was an example to explain the idea. Of course you need to adapt that concept to make it working for a govern system.


(Luca) #43

I was looking for a good online democracy tool. What about Loomio?

https://www.loomio.org/marketing

Edit: I also found these three:

http://democracyos.org/

https://www.airesis.eu/

https://civilhub.org/ (still in beta)


(Thatoo) #44

looks good to me!


(Lapineige) #45

If you wanna test and report your finding, how it can adapt to the project, before the next governance meeting for instance, it can be useful :wink:


(Luca) #46

I’ll try to do that before next meeting (it’s planned for the 20th of may, if I can understand well)!


(Thatoo) #47

I’ve just found this one also : APSO http://www.democratietempsreel.com/


(Luca) #48

What the hell a Decision-making software is?

Decision-making software (DMS) is used to help individuals and organizations with their decision-making processes, typically resulting in ranking, sorting or choosing from among alternatives. (more on … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision-making_software)


Loomio

It’s developed since 2011, after the Occupy movent, by a team of technologist and activists in New Zeland.
The idea behind the project is to solve one of the biggest issues of the movement: “collective decision-making had great potential, but was limited by the difficulty of getting everyone to the same place at the same time to make those decisions” (if you want to read more … https://gigaom.com/2014/03/13/meet-loomio-the-small-scale-decision-making-platform-with-the-biggest-ambitions/).
It implements the occupy movement hand signals.

Home page: https://www.loomio.org/marketing


License:

GNU Affero General Public License - n. 3

Differences with the GNU GPL 3?

The GNU Affero General Public License is a modified version of the ordinary GNU GPL version 3. It has one added requirement: if you run a modified program on a server and let other users communicate with it there, your server must also allow them to download the source code corresponding to the modified version running there. (more … https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-affero-gpl.html)


Decision-making method?

Unknown


Pro:

  • open source;
  • simple (compared, for example, to Liquidfeedback.org);
  • sexy;
  • works on mobile, better Loomio it self “is a web app based on HTML5 and AngularJS , so it should play nicely with low-cost Android and Firefox OS devices”;

Edit: I gave a try to the mobile version, using my Motorola mote E 2015, and the experience is great: the are no blocks nor lag, and everything is fluid and smooth. Test fully successful!




  • I think we could selfhost it, but they also offers plans for organizations with no money.

Cons:

  • Unknown decision-making method.

Is there anyone else who already use it?

-Podemos (the spanish party);
-Diaspora;


How does it look like?

Try it yourself: https://www.loomio.org/users/sign_in?return_to=%2F.


Manual:

https://loomio.gitbooks.io/manual/content/en/index.html


(Luca) #49

DemocracyOS

DemocracyOS is an online space for deliberation and voting on political proposals. It is a platform for a more open and participatory government. The software aims to stimulate better arguments and come to better rulings, as peers.
It’s developed by an argentinian nonprofit organization (Democracia ed Red) in Java and other (at least to me … :sweat_smile:) unknow languages.

Home page: http://democracyos.org/


License:

GNU General Public License - n. 3


Decision-making method?

Unknown


Pro:

  • open source;
  • simple (compared, for example, to Liquidfeedback.org);
  • sexy;
  • works on mobile;

Edit: Except for some bugs (as you can, there’s no menu in the first screen) the experience is fluid and pleasant.




  • multiple languages (more than 15).

Cons:

  • poor in terms of features, compared to Loomio;
  • Unknown decision-making method;

Is there anyone else who already use it?

  • Partido de la Red, an argentinian political party;

How does it look like?

There are no demo video online, but you can directly try it here.


Documentation:

http://docs.democracyos.org/


(Luca) #50

Airesis

Airesis is a free software platform, built by a team of Italian developers and contributors, to enable communities and groups to organize themselves in a productive manner according to
the principles of direct democracy and participation.

Airesis is supported and promoted by the italian No-Profit Association ‘Tecnologie Democratiche’.

Home page: https://www.airesis.eu/


License:

GNU Affero General Public License - (n. 3?)


Decision-making method?

Shulze voting method.

It’s a voting system developed in 1997 by Markus Schulze that selects a single winner using votes that express preferences. The method can also be used to create a sorted list of winners (more on wikipedia).


Pro:

  • open source;
  • simple (compared, for example, to Liquidfeedback.org);
  • feature rich (proposals, rich voting system, calendar, meetings etc.);
  • known decision method.

Cons:

  • platform/documentation barely translated in english;
  • not so sexy;
  • confusing interface;
  • bad work on mobile;

Edit: The mobile experience is not good as hoped. There’s something tricky in surfing the website. Test failed, as usual I made it with my Android Motorola Moto E 2015.





Is there anyone else who already use it?

  • Some italian associations and local political parties;

How does it look like?

Most videos, except for the presentation one, are in italian …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMPAzakTgfA

You can directly try it here.


More info:

https://www.airesis.eu/edemocracy


(Luca) #51

CivilHub

CivilHub is a free and open-source platform written in Python & Django for the purpose of collaboration in local civic communities. It’s a feature-rich decision-making software, and it seems really promising even if it’s still in a beta stage.

The software is developed by a group of IT specialists based in Warsaw, Poland.

Home page: https://civilhub.org/


License:

GNU General Public License - n. 3


Decision-making method?

Unknown


Pro:

Cons:

  • still in beta stage;
  • decision-making method unknown;
  • mobile application is under construction :frowning:

Edit: The mobile experience is not that bad, all considered. If I have to compare it with the other softwares it’s not as good as Loomio and DemocracyOs, but much better than Airesis.





Is there anyone else who already use it?

  • Some italian associations and local political parties;

How does it look like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4DebPvufk

You can directly try it here.


More info:

https://civilhub.org/brief/


(Jovan Gerodetti) #52

a small suggestion, your expressions:
“mobile application is under construction” and “works on mobile” are not really useful.
What really matter is the question “Is the web applicaion responsive? YES / no / work in progress”


(Luca) #53

Thank you, Jovan, I’m going to be more precise on this point, giving you more infos on the mobile experience (obviously basing it on my current android smartphone) :slightly_smiling:


(Luca) #54

APSO

APSO was made to provide an Association with a Permanent general Assembly. It was developed by PSO, a French association and released with an open source licence.

IMPORTANT: As you can see opening their homepage, their website doesn’t provide many informations and details on the project.

Unfortunately, I don’t think APSO could be a valid option.

If anyone can do something to help me, he’s welcome.

I tried the open a test mode, but I had no success. For french speakers, this is their reply:

Bonjour, vous venez d’être inscrit à la version apso-test. Si vous souhaitez poursuivre votre exploration, notez qu’une communauté (Unefpe = UNE Fonction Psychanalytique) en fait actuellement usage intégré dans son networkhttps://apso.info/unefpe , auquel vous pouvez également vous inscrire (présentation 1min35 =https://youtu.be/25tcowL1sBY ).Cordial, Découverte & Réussite

DWT - http://www.william-theaux.net ; https://apso.info

Home page: http://www.democratietempsreel.com/


License:

MIT License (more … https://opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php)


How does it look like?


(papymarc) #55

Source code : https://github.com/williamtheaux/APSO


(Luca) #56

Thank you! :smiley:


(Ben Francis) #57

This thread seems to have taken a bit of a strange detour.

I don’t think we need a piece of software, or even a democracy, to make decisions amongst a handful of people about a piece of software. We just need a meeting every now and then to discuss things and make a decision.

I’m yet to see evidence of a need for a governance system for B2G beyond Mozilla’s module ownership system.


(Luca) #58

Ben, you’re right, as a little community we don’t need anything different from a forum, an informal tool as telegram and a bunch of meetings.

I really love what we are doing all together and probably one of the reason why I truly appreciate it is that I can really feel it mine, as we all can participate to all the decision we’re taking.

After all, this is the beauty of a democratic community. Even if we just talk of software, everyone here can be part of this mechanism giving his contribute.

Soon, hopefully, we are going to be much more and what we are trying to understand is how can we continue to work as we are doing now, without excluding anyone from key decisions.


(Luca) #59

As result of the analysis on decision-making softwares nowadays available, I would choose Loomio. Trying to summarize, this is why:

  • it’s an innovative and complete project, born from the daily needs of a big community;

  • it respects our philosophy regarding free software (it’s an open source project) and technologies adopted, since it uses html5;

  • the experience is great: the are no blocks nor lag, and everything is fluid and smooth;

  • it’s the most active project taking a look at longevity (it first release dates back to september 2012), commits (more than 9.800) and developers (52, in total);

  • In comparison with the others, Loomio is the best in terms of design and feature richness;

  • it can be self-hosted, but they also offer a specific plan for groups without a budget ( https://www.loomio.org/pricing ) and it’s also possible to have a subdomain such as b2gos.loomio.org.


(Lapineige) #60

And that makes it easier to hack if needed.

Regarding the points you mention, indeed it seems to be a good tool.

Thanks a lot @Luca for your hard work ! It will be really valuable when we will come again to governance model discussions :slightly_smiling: