[Update - v2] B2G Manifesto proposal - let's discuss about it ! :)

(Philippe) #42

I will read the whole pad saturday to see if I have some comments about it. I haven’t the time right now.

(Philippe) #43

Sorry I hadn’t the time to read it again yesterday because I was at “Premier samedi du libre”.
So I’ve done this today. I have a few remarks.

  • In the first paragraph “Bringing the web platform to the mobile world”:
    The sentence “Webapps, apps powered by web technologies, are part of this goal - that’s why B2G rely on them.” I think this idea comes too late and should be just after the explanation about webapps. It sounds more logic to me. There is my reorganization of the extract:

Because they allow a lightweight, powerful, easy to distribute, universal and cross-platform app system, (progressive) webapps are more and more appreciated by users and developers - especially on mobile devices.

Webapps are the new standard way to do apps using web technologies, that’s why B2G rely on them and use them as much as it can.

Instead of being based on past tools, we using modern web technologies to create a state-of-the-art platform which connects people.

B2G is here to take the best of web technologies and push them into the mobile world.
This means using this technologies as the tools to create a fast online and offline experience, adapted to the mobile devices, and easy to develop, hack and customize.

I haven’t changed the etherpad. Tell me if it sounds better or not.

  • Concerning the sentence in the “Privacy and Security as standard” part

An operating system that violate your privacy if working against you, not for you.

I think “if” should be “is”. Am I right? Moreover, I don’t really like this sentence and I think we can remove it because we already say clearly that B2G will protect privacy:

As protecting your privacy is an unconditional goal of this system

  • To finish, maybe we can add a sentence to say that B2G is based on Gecko from Firefox and that we do not developp all the engine to render a web page by ourselves. We have some custom code but we will not developp the part concerning new webstandard that is already done by Mozilla. We will just use it into our project. Am I clear?

An example:

B2G OS is based on Firefox engine developped by Mozilla and will try to use as much as it can the new web technologies developped by the browser to improve the web mobile operating system.

(Lapineige) #44

No problem, no need to apologies here (we all have our contrainst ;))

Seems better IMHO. I updated the etherpad (not the first post of this topic, if someone wanna see the difference)
I’m just thinking about the word: … apps using web tecnologies… Don’t you think powered could be better ?
For the “as much as it can” > should we replace it by as much as possible ?

Yeah, mistake here, thanks :slightly_smiling:

I don’t agree: we first highlight the issue with other popular systems, and highlight this general issue strongly. After that we explain what’s our difference (free software), why you can trust the system. And finally, we say clearly that one of our goals is respecting user privacy.
I’ve not the feeling that it’s redundant, it’s seems more like a logical progression (that’s the idea for the whole manifest, even if I’m not sure it’s clear :sweat_smile:).

For your last point: interesting, it’s might be the way to say that it’s link to the rest of the Firefox OS project, to gecko (it might be a good idea to add it after Firefox engine). Maybe it can be added before/integrated to the sentence with Mozilla Manifesto ?

Thanks for sharing your toughs ! :slightly_smiling:

(Philippe) #45

I agree with these replacements :slight_smile:
“as much as possible” sounds better and “powered by” doesn’t change anything for me, so go ahead :wink:

I see why. But this sentence is only here to do a comparison with the other systems. This implies that the other major mobile OS don’t respect privacy, and for me the manifest should be independant from the actual context. The manifest defines goals that will not change or just a little. I don’t know if I’m clear, but if we keep the sentence it doesn’t bother me :slight_smile:

Yeah, it’s a good place to put this point.

(Lapineige) #46

Well, I’m not sure the context will change in the future ^^
It’s more general than just saying that other systems don’t respect privacy (well, that’s not true for all of them), even if it’s important to highlight this issue.
It’s also a way to highlight this issue (not respecting privacy = not respecting user) as a way to explain B2G OS choice and to bring out this advantage (which is not context depending).

What do you think about this (as a replacement of the sentence This project is also supported by Mozilla, and is also in agreement with the Mozilla Manifesto):

B2G OS is based on Firefox engine (Gecko) developed by Mozilla, and will try to benefits from his improvement and integration of new web technologies. The project is also in agreement with the Mozilla Manifesto.

I’m not really confident about the end of the first sentence, if you have a better idea… :wink:

(Lapineige) #47

UP B2Geeks ! :slightly_smiling:

(Lapineige) #48

Update here:

  • Just as a reminder, the manifesto etherpad link: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/B2GOS_manifesto_proposal

  • There is a lot less reactions since a while, does it means that we are approaching a final version ?
    Please have a read of the pad, to check if all the content is correct.
    Review for the shape, the English grammar and spelling is welcome too :slightly_smiling:

  • @enrico_ghiorzi highlighted a point about security:

Protecting their privacy in a secure environment should not be painful for the users - so B2G is committed to embed state-of-the-art technologies to protect its users while keeping them easy to use and manage.
IMO: we are making promises we are not sure we can fulfill: first versions could be a security nightmare and some important security features are difficult to
implement - they could take ages to land.

I agree that saying that our OS is super secure is not a good idea.
And in fact I see 2 type of “security” here:

  • security again attacks, malware and so on.
    On this part - except for the Mozilla-maintained part - it will depends of technical contributions and skills, code review, …
    It’s tricky, and right now we can’t guaranty anything. But we could say in the manifesto that it’s a goal, but really depending of contribution - there is no warranty.
  • “security” of your data, like protecting you against app wanting to gather more data when you don’t want to (like if the torch app wants to access to your contact, you can block it / fake it), and adding tools to protect your privacy online (ads/tracker blockers, VPN, Tor, …)
    Against app behaviour, well it’s one of our main values, so we could say it clearly.
    For online privacy tools, again it depends of contributors that can add, review and maintain those technologies. I think we could again say that’s it’s a goal and not the current status, that’s the openness of the code helps, but that we rely on contributions.

Do you agree with that ?
If yes, we need to find a way to say it in the manifesto.

(Ben Francis) #49


In reviewing the proposed text of the manifesto I found I had lots of comments, so I started to add them as suggestions and comments in a Google Doc rather than cluttering the Etherpad.

I think the current text has ended up being a bit wordy, so I had a go at creating a much shorter version which summarises the points I think people are trying to make, including references to relevant sections of the Mozilla Manifesto. I wrote this at the end of the document, but I’ve pasted it here for you to see. What do you think about this text?

B2G OS Manifesto

B2G OS is a complete, standalone operating system for the open web. It is an open source project supported by Mozilla and is guided by the following principles:

1. The Web is the Platform

Content should not be built for B2G OS, it should be built for the web [2, 6].

2. By the Community, For the Community

B2G OS is an open source project built by its community, for its community [5, 7, 8].

3. Privacy and Security as Standard

Privacy and security are core values of the B2G OS project and must be treated as fundamental, not optional [4].

4. Simple and Customizable

B2G OS should be simple at its core, but extensible and customizable to its users’ needs [5].

5. The Best Way to Experience the Web

B2G OS should aim to provide the best possible way to experience the web, by supporting the latest web standards and putting web content front and center [3].


I like this version. It’s short and clear, and it summarizes all the fundamental ideas.

Small fix I propose in point 4: “… to fit its users’ needs.”

(Lapineige) #51

I can’t see the Google Doc file, it needs to login :confused:

Thanks for your reaction @benfrancis, it’s an interesting proposal :wink:
I agree that it starts to be too much wordy and must be summarize. For sure there is some redundant content, paragraphs that can be rewritten in a shorter way.
And I like the fact that your version is really simple and clear, 1 sentence telling the main idea - and I think your highlighted the key ideas of the text.
However, I have the feeling that it’s a bit too short - I mean that it contains some key values/goals, but without explaining them or their consequences.
For instance, the first point imply using web standards and webapps (it’s obvious for us), but doesn’t talk directly about them or their advantages/interesting aspect (which can be understood as why we choose those technologies).
(side note: this point, without the implications behind, can be seen as a bit redundant with point 5)

This gives me an idea: making a list of key point as @benfrancis made it, with a short paragraph (like 2~3 lines) to briefly explain the reasons / consequences / advantages behind a choice.
A bit like Mozilla’s Manifesto, when you click on 1 point you have more details about it.

What do you think about B2Geeks ? :slightly_smiling:
I can try to do one and ask for reactions if you want.

(Ben Francis) #52

I can’t see the Google Doc file, it needs to login

Sorry, fixed.

(Alberttogv) #53

Hi. Im new here, but an old firefox os entusiast, I would like contribute on the Firefox OS renaissance. I like the short manifest, but with links to other text explaining the reasons and adventages like Mozilla manifest, and how @lapineige says in the previos post

(Lapineige) #54

And you are warmly welcomed ! :slightly_smiling:

I will prepare a proposal following the idea of @benfrancis with also a short description for each point.

(Lapineige) #55

So I finally found some time to work on this :sweat_smile::

@benfrancis I just did a simple adaptation of your proposal, I wanted to make it a bit more clear about some reason behind the various points, and also to try to involve more the reader.
(my original idea was a bit more wordy, but I finally think that keeping it as simple as the one you made is better)

I hope you’ll like it: time for discussions :slight_smile:

1 . The Web is the Platform

Content should not be built for B2G OS or any particular platform, it should be built for the web.
It uses standard-based webapps to promote an open access to the web.

2. By the Community, For the Community

B2G OS is an free and open source project driven by is community in their interest. All users should be able to contribute and make the OS their deserve.

3. Privacy and Security as Standard

You can trust B2G OS: Privacy and security are core values of the project and must be treated as fundamental, not optional.
This is guaranteed by the openness of the source code and contribution process.

And as fundamental values they should remains painless for the users.

4. Simple and Customizable

B2G OS should be simple at its core, but extensible and customizable to its users’ needs - to provide them the lovely system they want and deserve.

5. The Best Way to Experience the Web

B2G OS should aim to provide the best possible way to experience the web, by supporting the latest web standards and putting web content front and center.

Made with love - Because you deserve it