Proposal: native.js to "embrace & extend" the WebExtensions API

(Axel) #6

I’d be wary about the backwards compat piece.

Fixing bugs isn’t backwards compatible, in general. As you mentioned, it’s bad for add-ons to be stuck on buggy versions of code, but they may very well depend on behaviour that’s found to be buggy.

(Giorgio Maone) #7

Bill, thank you very much for weighing in.
I heartily agree with all your considerations here, especially those about

  1. the ability of adding "APIs that other WebExtensions could use" ("a meta-API" in my proposal), which would make integration far more intuitive than message passing, provided that which process any API is usable from is clearly documented;
  2. the need for native.js components to be separately updatable, which can be fulfilled either by "actively encouraging" (as I wrote, thinking about the AMO review process) or even forcing by policy (as maybe you suggest) developers to provide them as separated add-on packages and by providing dependency support.
Needless to say, the part I've appreciated most is "start prototyping soon" ;)
(Emiliano Heyns) #8

Not at all happy with this, specifically the “would raise a red flag both in AMO reviewer dashboard, to be examined more carefully”. The Mozilla review process makes the proverbial continental drift look fast, and from the description it sounds like whatever uses native.js would be ineligible for automated signing. I’ve been putting in hours in refactoring and scrapping interesting features just to keep auto sign eligibility, so I can service the needs of my users with emergency patches or instrumented debug builds.

(Noitidart) #9

I think if it uses native.js it will just go through the same review process that it goes through today.

#10

This is very hacky indeed. And seems to be evading the real issue.

If all features are going to exist in webextensions, then I don’t see why we should have a native.js at all, using something low-level when a better non-low-level thing exists should be disallowed, period.

The real question that everyone is thinking about is this, what happens for extensions that

  1. Read/Write to the filesystem, and why shouldn’t they be allowed to do so if it’s required for their legit functionality? Don’t users install them knowing they open their documents from the filesystem?

  2. What happens to the APIs for getting OS info?

  3. Why should they be disallowed for extensions that really use them for something legitimate? Without giving any other alternative? What’s the benefit of doing that?

Let’s be clear. If something is doable without going low-level, then by all means, revoke any extension that doesn’t use the latest and greatest. But if an extension does need low-level functionality to work, then let’s allow that as well. Be it native.js or whatever.

(Teoh Han Hui) #11

I’m just a user, but if the essential extensions like DownThemAll! go away then I’ll probably be saying goodbye to Firefox.

http://www.downthemall.net/the-likely-end-of-downthemall/

(Alex) #12

this is a funny remark … how can a highlevel module be “better” than a lowlevel module?

(Alex) #13

ohh man becasue mozilla is cheap enough to not even pay a few additional reviewers , they rather restructure their whole addon stuff and becasue one of 1000 addons has some strange code in it , everybody is supposed to remove features from his addon ? looooool , good luck with that

you guys depricated old and inroduced new xpcom modules for years now and it was never a problem , so why is it a problem now ? becasue you need parity with chrome ? lol
the best chrome addons have nothing on the best firefoxaddons , just saying

edited for profanity reasons , iwas angry and trolling

(Alex) #14

sorry for being so angry before but this security xxx is getting out of hands imho.

let me explain with a most simple example:
and addon wants to trigger fullscreen and play a list of webstreams.
becasue of the awesome security model it can´t do that. so instead of just simply disallowing it for webscripts its also disallowed for your addon-code. WHY?

so now we have the situation where we must per lowlevel api change the fullscreen protection off (its in the config) , then send message to our webscript , which then triggers fullscreen , send a message back and on arrival turn the fullscren protection back on. lol thats really efficient and secure lol …

and now you want us to EVEN firewall against the xpcom and chrome.xul with yet another limiting message api … this is getting crazy and helps no one but the hardware manufacturers lol becasue each new iteration of firefox needs more and better hardware !

shouldn´t you rather employ new reviewers who do this professionally all day , who make sure NO addon is programmed with sniffing and trojan horses ? and enforce downloading only through amo ? that would be enough to make everything supersafe forever.

when i heard first about browser.html i thought “ohh how awesome now we can modify firefox to the maximum limit , like change everything to everything” :slight_smile: … now these posts indicate we probably can´t even have basic access without putting a good strain on the cpu having to walk through 3 message apis all with packer unpacker , rectifier, security checks, buffer and whatnot and then only exchange strings , arrays .

i also think you guys fail to see what your most used addos are ( minus the adblockers) … thats stuff like ss google translator , menuwizard and tabmix plus are all with advanced function you wanna take away from them or make it as hard as possible. not a good idea.

the customizability of firefox is its strong point and if you really wanna do that i see firefox failing and maybe even splitting a opensource fork which will try to keep functionality intact, and taking a good chunk of oldschool users with it. this happend before, i dopn´t want that to be honest.

just my 2 cents …

(Luís Miguel) #15

You are posting in the wrong place, this topic is for discussing a proposal to allow WebExtensions to still do a lot of the things you mentioned even. [1] I suggest starting a new topic, or look around for a more appropriate one; I recall at least a couple that exist, although I don’t have links off-hand.

BTW, implementing WebExtensions is not (just) about security. :wink:

[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions/FAQ#Won.27t_this_limit_experimentation.3F

(Desktopd Mozilla Product Lead) #16

What is the license requirement for inclusion into the official API?

(Noitidart) #17

Hi there, I was wondering what the status was on this. If we will be allowed to use framescript, bootstrap, and chromeworker (ctypes) without any XPCOM (just Services.jsm from just bootstrap) I have two modules I was hoping to contribute:

(1) is ostypes, its js-ctypes types defined for windows (win api, com), mac (carbon, corefoundation, cocoa, libc), *nix (gtk+, x11, xcb, libc) - this one is completely ready, it is available as a git submodule - https://github.com/Noitidart/ostypes - i didnt write a readme.md for it yet

(2) a module that allows any scope (bootstrap, content, framescript, worker) to call a function in the other scope, get a callback (the callback pathway can be kept open and progress updates can be sent to it). internally the communication api uses ports between everything. bheind the curtains, it will transfer transferrables (ArrayBuffer’s/Port’s) if the transferrable was marked for “transfer where possible”. (transferring happens between: worker<->bootstrap, bootstrap<->in process content, framescript<->content) (between bootstrap<->framescript as they are different process, it is copied) - I haven’t yet turned this into a git submodule but the code is available here - https://github.com/Noitidart/Screencastify/

for example to call from content to main worker you would have this code from content page:

callInWorker('countdown', {from:10, to:5}, function(aArg) {
    console.log('time left:', aArg.timeleft);
    if (!aArg.__PROGRESS) {
       console.log('coutndown completed');
    }
});

This call will pass from content -> framescript -> bootstrap -> worker. And then respones from worker will trickle down worker -> bootstrap -> framescript -> content. And when the final value is sent from worker (!aArg.__PROGRESS) then the pathway is destroyed/cleaned-up

(Noitidart) #18

Made a submodule out of the comm api, which I mentioned in my previous post. - https://github.com/Noitidart/Comm

Usage can be seen in examples here - https://github.com/Noitidart/CommPlayground

##In summary this API

Example usage: From my content script i can call to mainworker with callInMainworker and it will transfer from content script to framescript, then clone from framescript to bootstrpa, then transfer from bootstrap to worker, and in the callback it will reverse it. And each function in the worker can do aReportProgress(blah) and it will send progress updates to that callback in content (transferring where possible), without closing the callback.

tldr: Not limited to worker and contentBehindFramescript, works between worker-worker, mainthread-worker, bootstrap-framescript, mainthread-content, mainthread-contentBehindFramescript, whatever combination you want.

(Noitidart) #19

I have two more submodules to contribute to native.js whenever they are ready:

  1. jscSystemHotkey - Create global/system-wide hotkeys. Function keys (media etc) also supported. Github.
  1. jscFileWatcher - Watch directories to see if contained files are renamed/moved/created/deleted. Github
#20

I’m puzzle still how we can use your examples to extend the webextension APIs as mentioned in the topic. I see the bootstrap.js files on Github but i can not find the bend for the use case for webextensions at the moment. Please let me know in case of eventuality.

(Noitidart) #21

They can’t be used yet from WebExtensions, only from bootstrap and Addon SDK addons right now. Hopefully native.js comes around soon though.

(R Chrzanowski) #22

This brings some hope. Currently we use both ctypes and chrome components to call cryptographic API (crypt32.dll) and also use printing services to print with custom preferences on custom printer from our web application but it doesn’t seem any of it is possible with WebExtensions.
Currently extensions are both powerful and easy to install while they need to be accpeted by user anyway. I also hope that automatic siging will always be possible for unpublished addon even with native.js or anything like that.

1 Like
#23

It sounds like native messaging (supported in Firefox from version 50) might help here?

#24

I consider native messaging in best case as a emergency solution and that in all use cases. Why? You need to setup the app manifest and registry settings on the host computer. Comment end.

I’m playing at the moment with webextensions experiments for child process based on sdk child_process. It works. But of course there is no use case if you need a nightly here.

(R Chrzanowski) #25

Yes, it’s solution that would work but that would require installing additional software on every client’s PC just as TheRave said. Which isn’t as simple as showing a link “press here to install extension” in our application after logging in.