Newby, am I missing something?

Hi Guys

Really sorry if I’m in the wrong place, if so please accept my apologies and maybe someone can point me in the right direction. But I’d like to ask a question.

I have just (yesterday) set up my Zwave Raspberry pi Webthings and its looking good, well amazing actually. The problem I have was I was using Sonoff devices to control my heating when I noticed Zwave Devolo TRV’s were selling less than £10 on Amazon UK, so I bought 6 and they all work with my Zwave Pi using Webthings. However, once thing I can’t work out is “Rules”.

For example, I set a Rule and the Target is set to 10. Its accepted in Rules ok, but when I go to Things, the Rule Target hasnt changed. So my first question, should it?

I have setup some Rules to test the valves (and they work) but they are listed in Rules, not grouped. So by the time I have installed all 6 and programmed their on-off periods, thats going to be a long list and “messy” to manage. Is there a way where I can group the Rules under each respective valve. If anybody could advise, I’d really appreciate it. Plus any other tips you may have. But what a great bit of kit, well done. A

Can you share an example of one of your rules, and a little more about how (logically) it is supposed to work? I find rules to be super compelling. Once you get the hang of it, they are amazing. My quick advice is don’t overload one rule. Just make more of them…

Hi K-giori,

I’m very grateful for your reply as this is my first use of Webthings so my understanding of it at the moment is “0”. So any help is very much appreciated.

Yes, I’ll try to explain.
I have a radiator thermostat(s) I’m trying to set up.
I’ve paired the stats, and they are paired ok. But the rules, I want to turn the stats on and off, with a variable temperature throughout the day, morning, midday and night. So it comes on at 06:00 at 20c, 09:00 at15c, 15:00 at 17c, 18:30 at 23c, 23:00 at 15c

And I have 6 of these and each time I make a rule, a new “rule” box is created with the rule in it. So, 5 rules for one stat. You times that by 6, that’s 30 rule boxes just for the heating, and they are all together. I can’t see a way of making “a space/box/compartment” for each radiator, this makes it really hard to manage, if this makes sense.

Plus if I begin to expand my system, this bunch of rules which are all in one place is going to be a headache to manage.

So, I’m sure I’m missing something, but I just can’t see how you can group things

What I’d like is “a box” for each stat with all the rules there. Is this possible?

Thanks again for your help…

Can you list the properties, actions, and events of the valves and/or thermostat, or whatever is being adjusted several times per day?

You can also just open the thing’s detail page (click the splat icon) and paste a screenshot in here. And then is the only input to your rules the current time? or does current temperature also matter?

You can also paste a screenshot of a rule that you think should work but doesn’t. There are various add-ons that might be useful for you to group things. But I still don’t have a good handle on the inputs and outputs of your rules.

Hi again K-giori

Sorry for not been clearer, lets try again as I’m right at the start of my journey here so let’s try again.

Basically, I need to set up at least 6 radiator thermostats, plus other Zwave units down the line.

I’ve paired up three as you can see with the screenshots, thanks for the tip.

Time and Target temperature are the critical things at the moment where I can set *Rules" for several individual times and temperatures for each of the radiator thermostats. When both conditions are met, the radiator thermostat actuates be that opening or closing albeit, the closing is always going to be a lower temperature than the current one. ( there is no off “button” as such so the Target Temperature is reduced).

The stat will stay in that state until the next “Rule” comes along several hours later. And so on.

Or, maybe I’m doing this completely the wrong way?

I don’t think I can explain in more detail as I am not yet conversed with the softwares workings.

But it’s how I understand how it works :open_mouth:

Ok, hopefully it makes sense and again thanks for your help, it honestly is appreciated.

Sorry I have another question regarding Rules, I hope you don’t mind.

In Things you can set a Heating Target. Why is that when there is also a Heating Target in Rules. I’m sure there’s a logical reason.

Plus, the “Wake up Interval” I’m not clear what it is. Is it a pre-warm up time so that the temperature you’ve set in Rules is reached at the time you have programmed in, if this makes sense?

Thanks for your help again and apologises for the questions

It seems you have multiple devices, each with it’s own temperature control and conditions. To me, there is no easy way to reduce the number of rules; for each device you will need a separate rule set for on and off events if you need to control each one individually. If a temperature event will trigger multiple devices to either cool or heat, then a more complex rule condition detecting temperature of more than one device can be constructed.

Just to be clear, rules do have both AND and OR conditions that are hidden in the pull down. This was not clear to me when I started. Also, there is no way to really construct or include complex conditions in 1 rule. I complained (provided feedback) in a post a long while back about this lack.

For my home, I have used the Virtual Things addon to define “push button” state triggers. For example, if one of your devices needs to perform an action, it will change the push button to a “pushed” state. A separate rule would then trigger when “on pushed”, perform an action, and as it’s last action, reset itself to “not pushed”.

Kathy mentioned creating numerous small rules that can then be used by themselves, or together. It brings back my days in college constructing VEN diagrams before building test circuits in the lab…

There is a scheduler add-on that may help as well. I’ll try to find time later tonight to send some suggestions via a mock up of virtual things that I can create on my own gateway to mimic your setup.

Hi , thanks for your help. I really don’t want to take your time. But how nice of you to help. That’s really very kind of you.

Please take your time, no rush whatsoever. And thank you very much.

Hi Eric

Thanks for your help here, being new to this, all advice and help is very much appreciated, so thanks.

I don’t mind lots of rules even though at this stage I’m not sure how complex they can get, it’s more grouping them all. I have had a little go at this and my screen was full of individual rules all in one area for all the devices I have. It would be great to have each device with its own “box” with its own rules contained within it. Maybe it’s my misunderstanding and you can do that.

But Ven diagrams, I loved them, if this is like a VG, great, can’t wait. But thanks for your help…