Years ago, Firefox WAS my favourite browser. No longer

Mozillians
#29

After reading & reviewing the comments and Mozilla replies in this thread, I think there is a need to reestablish some civility in the discussion. Right now, I see a great number of accusations and a lot of defensiveness; we need to understand each other better if we’re going to see FF continue as a successful browser. Sure, it’s hard to change – but we must acknowledge that not all change is good, and there are always missteps when software changes. On the other hand, from years working in ancient “mainframe” computers, I know very well how resistant many programmers are to suggestions for user interface changes. Stubborn developers were termed the “Imperial Programming Overlords” in some circles at Unisys; in turn, they derided those fuzzy-headed Users as unwilling to adapt to the clearly superior interface the program teams had developed.

So we need to be aware that we all arrive with our own needs & prejudices. Let’s listen more.

FWIW, as I see it, the underlying problem is that there is apparently no way forward – at this point – for outdated extensions to be incorporated into FF57. Two of the most common complaints involve NoScript (which has now been adapted in a way that is somewhat awkward – even cryptic, as my wife can’t figure out some of the options!) and items that involve either appearance or the use of additional toolbar functions.

I have no advice regarding NoScript; they do what they do and we either accept it or not. It would help if comments were sent to NoScript from those of us who have contributed money toward supporting it (the ear is probably more responsive to the voice of a patron than a borrower).

Appearance is easy to fix from a programming standpoint, and based on my limited coding background I think it would not be impossible for the next release to provide a way to adapt certain appearance functions to FF.

The possibility of adding a toolbar (e.g. Download Status Bar, New Add-On Bar, Status4Evar, etc.) is problematic because FF57’s security prevents adding a toolbar. However, this could be remedied by restoring a built-in bar (like the old Status Bar) and permitting the placement of icons on that bar. Already we have seen Google Shortcuts and ForecastFox (fix version) adapted successfully to mimic mini-toolbars via pop-up selections. It is undoubtedly possible for FF to restore some of that functionality via a restored bottom-line bar.

At this point, I have been sufficiently frustrated that I back-graded to FF56.0.2 and restored most of my old extensions. (When I want to test the current FF, I go to my wife’s PC. Even though she switched to Chrome, she kindly retained FF57 at my request so that I can check on it to see what is going on.)

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#30

Hi there @rjgnyc.

Request: impossible.

Reason: if FF developers (or those close to them) do not want to be honest and acknowledge that there is a problem, what do we do? There has been tremendous backlash, and they refuse to acknowledge that truth. Whether they see it or not is another matter entirely.

Now, I think most of us (if not all) are computer experts - be it web developer, software or browser developer or other. It… took me at least half an hour to understand what the heck was going on with NoScript. I legit avoid FF thrice as much as before now, because NoScript has become clunky, difficult to understand and truly non-user friendly. And this is wholly caused by FF dev team with the changes they brought to the platform. Do I blame the NoScript dev? No, not one bit. The entire blame is to be taken by the FF team.

If the FF team refuses to acknowledge or take responsibility, then we cannot move forward. The day Quantum came into existence was the beginning of FF’s true downfall. If I want Chrome, I will use Chrome, not FF.

1 Like
#31

Just chiming in to say, while FF was never my favorite browser, I always kept it around because nobody else had the Tild 3D functionality. Why would I keep FF around now? I mean, I have to test on it as a web developer, but I only touch it now when the project is ready to be tested across browsers. It used to have a competitive advantage, but that’s gone now.

I always wanted FF to succeed, but they keep making such questionable decisions :confused:

3 Likes
#32

Exactly. Even the best plugins don’t work very well. Because of this, noscript (for example) doesn’t work properly. It’s to the point where scripts are actually missing for me to either decide whether or not I want to allow or disallow them. I am sure that there are similar problems for other plugins.

When a browser breaks a plugin (a very much loved plugin), you don’t blame the developer of the plugin. I use Pale Moon, and the same plugin works the same as before. This lets you know how bad FF messed up. When a browser development teams asks for changes to be brought to (widely known) plugins, they are messing up big time.

I don’t get why the changes that were brought in by FF were brought in, as they have broken so many plugins. It’s like if they skipped QA threefold here. This is the beginning of the end…

#33

I came across this site because I was again going to give FF a try. They lost me in 2017 when they broke most of my extensions. The given line for the FF fans is that “we had to do it to modernize” — “change is hard but good” etc.

There are many people in this world that I call educated idiots. Take for instance a doctor in the hospital treating an elderly patient for C-Diff and the doc doesn’t put the patient on modified diet. In fact the patient sees coffee on their breakfast tray and other such foods that are the exact opposite of the food needed by the patient to heal. Doc is very educated in some things but an idiot in others — to the point that it can kill you.

The same is true for developers. They may feel the need to change is good but as we all know change for the sake of change is not always good. When thousands and thousands of people around the world lose benefits that were of value, the change is not good.

I know, I know, it is a free browser but that doesn’t mean we can’t speak our piece. You go onto a certain favorite Mozilla forum and speak badly of FF and you will get attacked. Like a big gander chasing you through the barnyard, the fans will call you a troll and then the moderators will threaten to ban you.

Seems the FF world is a shut up and go along type of world. So I left FF and after so many, many years of using it. Plus I feel that they became an advertising outlet.

#34

Consider that Pocket alone would be a reason to not be a reason to stay away “All you need is a free account, an Internet connection and the Pocket button”. In other words all you need is let us track your clicks. Hm…maybe, does FF promise not???

Then there are all those add-on issues for those of us that helped support FF over the years.

Maybe FF is playing to an audience I do not understand. My youthful 24 year old said this about taxes, we should just let the government do the taxes for us. Really? But then I fear there is a generation that is willing to make decisions based upon how easy something is for them and doesn’t care to make selections on their own. Kind of like robots that want to be given instructions and that is all they want in life.

#35

The same is true for developers. They may feel the need to change is good but as we all know change for the sake of change is not always good. When thousands and thousands of people around the world lose benefits that were of value, the change is not good.

IMHO, just because something works – it’s not an appropriate excuse to rebute change. We could’ve stopped iterating on web browsers back in the Netscape days if this was the case, but we didn’t and as a result the technology continues to advance. There will be mishaps, and some blunders along the way, but the overall goal here is to build a better product.

I know, I know, it is a free browser but that doesn’t mean we can’t speak our piece. You go onto a certain favorite Mozilla forum and speak badly of FF and you will get attacked. Like a big gander chasing you through the barnyard, the fans will call you a troll and then the moderators will threaten to ban you.

From your post, I can confirm with confidence that it’s not an issue with the community – rather it’s an issue with your behavioral tendencies as a forum poster. Critical but constructive feedback is important to evolving the product, and I support that. But you’re failing to convey concrete grievances or concerns that you have.

And I can prove this, by directing you to your original statement. You express your frustrations in five paragraphs, and leave a single sentence to your actual grievance, which was “they broke most of my extensions” with no further information. Had you said this: “I’m not happy because I use * extension * and they’re no longer supported”, then we can have a discussion. But you didn’t do that, and that’s why you’re getting those types of responses.

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#36

But users are not happy with Quantum so how is it the right move? Sorry but Quantum was the wrong move and we will NEVER accept this change. When you guys kill the ESR options I’m removing Firefox from my computer. The DEVS don’t give a damn about us users. It’s all about what YOU GUYS want. That’s not fair. You need to go back to the original Firefox setup and lose WebExtensions altogether. All We want is to be able to use our legacy extensions again. Is that too much to ask for? I will be using Chrome exclusively after August when I can no longer use Firefox 56.02 ESR. It’s no longer a great browser. Sorry.

1 Like
#37

You could also use Waterfox. It is a good alternative which both keeps pre-Quantum user interface and legacy addon compatibility but receives security updates and WebExtensions support from Firefox.

2 Likes
#38

Thank you kegene. Reply is much appreciated, and I couldn’t agree more. Although, I suggest you use Palemoon (over Firefox, or even Waterfox), as it retains the legacy Firefox a lot more in my opinion.

#39

Thank you for your replies Baptiste. I suggest Palemoon over Waterfox. The legacy options in my opinion are much better. And they have a community forum if ever you have queries or would like to report bugs. Also, there are some devs there (not associated with the actual browser itself) that support Palemoon in great ways (like themes). As for the noscript addon, it is the original one, not the crap that was unloaded after Firefox updated itself months and months ago.

#40

strong textOn August 28th I will switch to Chrome and uninstall Firefox. There are no replacements for the ‘legacy’ extension I lost in the upgrade. I considered keeping Firefox but Avast! detected a threat when I was adding a dial from FVD Speed Dial.

There are no other bookmark extensions that work half as well as the one I was using and Firefox opted to keep one that attracts viruses and may be a virus itself over one that worked perfectly for me with no issues for over 3 years.

They can say it’s the Developers fault all they want but it was Firefox who chose to switch to Quantum so I refuse to blame OM New Tab’s Developers. I do love Chrome now.

#41

I tend to feel the same way. Although I do not mind the actual Firefox browser, most of the extensions that worked well in the older version do not work in Quantum, and the fact is, if I hadn’t needed those, they wouldn’t have been installed.

Newer plugins do not do the job I need them to do, and I don’t like the way most of them work (actually from my point of view they don’t work right - when I right click something, I want it to translate the page without loading some other box, just translate the dang page on my screen, and haven’t found one that does that. I might just well tab up Google translate’s page in a new tab as install a plugin that does it awkwardly).

And yeah, I do know Firefox isn’t Chrome but the functionality I want in plugins is not smooth, and seems very awkward now as compared to the older Firefox.

Wish I’d never installed the updates. I don’t want a developer version either. Is an old version still available anywhere?

Unfortunately I am rather stuck with it since Chrome will no longer work on my computer either.

Sometimes progress is a great thing, but not always. It would have been better if the legacy extensions could have been made to work or an update made to make them compatible.

Sounds like a complaint I guess but really, I just want to be able to download a pre “lose everything” version if I can to replace Quantum so I can go back to using my old plugins.

#42

It’s not a complaint, it’s a valid sentiment that we ALL share. So, did FF mess up? So bad, that within a year or two, bye-bye FF. Chrome will be used extensively, and Palemoon for us who preferred Firefox before the switch.

1 Like
#43

Strongly agree with everything that had been said here… Its time to uninstall Firefox and move to something else being it Chrome/Opera/Vivaldi, or whatever else…

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#44

Who am I to complain about Firefox if I am getting it for free? How does Firefox make money? Does Firefox make more zero dollars if I use it more or less? I am unable to log into all the mail programs such as Gmail, GMX etc. while I use Firefox. Other browsers do not give me this problem. You would say “clear cookies” but that does not help and also I do not want to clear cookies as that means reentering all the usernames and passwords again and again just because Firefox is a screwed up software. So I use it less and less, or none at allm especially that the only browser that prints documents for me is Vivaldi. Firefox does not print the docs, it only crashes. But since Firefox costs me no money I just use another browser. Or did I pay for Firefox when I purcahsed my desktop? (I am not a fan of mobiles)

#45

If you have issues with your Firefox, please check Mozilla Support documentation and forums where we will be happy to help you.

Thanks!

#46

4 posts were split to a new topic: Firefox Mixed Content

#47

This discussion has more than 2 years now and content might be highly outdated. If you have any comments please feel free to open a new topic in this same category #mozillians

Thanks!

1 Like
#48